We have a third world version of the West's humanities. In the past every university in Iran had a Western mother university which produced and catered for it everything it needed. The world's educational systems which are beginning to follow the Hawza system of education is a discussion presented by Ayatollah Hadavi Tehrani in a detailed interview conducted by Mehr reporter.
Ayatollah Mahdi Hadavi Tehrani can be regarded as one of the young scholars in the Islamic seminary. He is 49 years old and he has made many achievements in different academic and cultural fields as a result of the activities he has had even since he has been in the seminary. IslamQuest.net which features 14 languages and provides answers to religious questions can be considered as one of his most important work. Add to it the composition and compilation of 62 books of which 14 volumes have been printed and published as of now.
Ayatollah Mahdi Hadavi first started his Howza studies unofficially in Tehran and in 1980, he started his official Howza studies in the holy city of Qom. He went back to Tehran where he studied Arabic literature and logic under Ayatollah Khoshvaqt, Fiqhi and Jawadi. He received the preliminary lessons of legal theories or principles of jurisprudence from Ayatollah Ali Muhammadi Sabzevari and Ayatollah Rahmani Mazandarani in Tehran. After his return to Qom, he finished the Sath (intermediate level studies) with renowned teachers like Ayatollah Ali Panah Ishtihardi, Mustafa E'temadi, Taher Shams Gulpaigani, Hussein Kashani, Salehi Mazandarani, Fazel Lankarani and Sayyid Hassan Taheri Khurram Abadi. During the intermediate level he was many times ranked top student in the Hawza exams. Thereupon he started his advanced studies under great scholars such as Ayatollah Ja'far Subhani, Ayatollah Sheikh Javad Tabrizi, Ayatollah Wahid Khorasani, Ayatollah Bahjat Foomani, Ayatollah Makarem Shirazi and Ayatollah Mirza Hashem Aamoli. He became acquainted with the jurisprudential and theoretical school of Martyr Ayatollah Sayed Muhammad Baqir Sadr under Ayatollah Sayyed Kazem Ha’eri. He learned Rijal (the science of the biography of narrators) from Ayatollah Ja'far Subhani and the well-known contemporary Ayatollah Sayed Musa Shubairi Zanjani.
In philosophy, he studied under eminent figures such as Ayatollah Ansari Shirazi, Ayatollah Hasan Zadeh Aamoli, and Ayatollah Mesbah Yazdi and for many years he benefited from Ayatollah Javadi Amoli attending his lectures on transcendent philosophy. In addition, he received lessons on ethics and Irfan (Gnosticism) in Tehran from Ayatollah Khoshwaqt. However, since the early days of his stay in Qom, he started his relationship with Ayatollah Bahjat, Ayatollah Mazaheri and Ayatollah Baha'uddini, the great Arif. Eventually, he gained a closer relationship with the latter maintaining it until Ayatollah Baha'uddini's demise. Not only did he practice Irfan and ethics under Ayatollah Baha'uddini, but he also studied Fiqh (jurisprudence), tafsir and Hadith under this great gnostic and jurist.
Other than teaching in the Hawza, Ayatollah Hadavi has kept up an academic relation with different universities and higher education institutes. He is a member of the Council for Revising Humanities Text Books in the Ministry of Sciences, Research and Technology, and the founder of the Porch of Wisdom Scientific and Research Institute.
He ranked top in the entrance exams in the field of electric engineering and electronics in Sharif Industrial University in 1979. This interview shows that he is still deeply attached with the university.
What follows is an interview with Ayatollah Hadavi Tehrani conducted by Mehr's Hawza and University news agency.
*Mehr News Agency – Hawza and University Group: My first question has something to do with the deficiencies of our country's university education system. Given that you yourself have been in touch with this system of education, what do you think are the flaws and deficiencies in this system?
Ayatollah Hadavi Tehrani: Our university education system which is in fact a legacy of the Western countries has not developed parallel with the educational developments in the Western countries. Therefore, it suffers from many deficiencies and setbacks. The emphasis laid by the university education to accumulate data without creativeness and generation of new ideas can be considered as one of the setbacks. The existing educational method in our universities which are currently faced with many problems due to lack of educational facilities and enormity of students is based on a special text whose literal content the student should memorize and present in the exams. More importantly, books taught in our universities are old and replete with wrong translations. A third weak point is that the student usually gets acquainted with outdated information about Western countries. Thus, he does not get acquainted with the de facto situation of the West nor does he build communication with the indigenous education of our country. A fourth weak point is that the West-generated sciences are deeply influenced by the Western cultural atmosphere, one that is characteristic of secularism. What is taught from the Western sources in the universities of our country especially in the humanities' sphere is under the influence of secular thoughts. These incorrect thoughts and assumptions are transmitted to our students without their background and presuppositions being explained for them. Since the information existing in these books are treated stagnantly – unlike the West's educational system – and the assumption is that this information is a part of the indisputable and unquestionable principles, the student accepts them in the same way as they are without him knowing that they have been criticized by the West's scientific centers.
Conclusively, the information of our university products i.e. our educated one and university graduates is not updated and is not concerned with the indigenous atmosphere of the country. That is why we are faced with serious problems in regards to our university products. Of course, there are students and teachers who are trying to treat the deficiencies within the educational system but they are not predominant.
*Please enumerate for us the points of strength of the university's educational system.
- The most important feature of the university's educational system is this that it is concerned with objective realities. Of course, the objective realities which are studied in our universities relate to the some old realities originating in the Western countries. I believe even our information about the Western countries is not updated. However, the study of the realities of a society is a positive point existing in the university and this positive point worth contemplation. Indeed, if the deficiencies of the educational system were removed and our students had updated information of the existing sciences in the West and were precisely acquainted with their presuppositions and seeking them with reference to the realities and current-day issues of our country and if the presuppositions which are inconsistent without our concepts and principles were made consistent and the university campus provided an environment in which the student engages in critical assessment of scientific issues, there is no doubt that the university educations could have been very effective and beneficial.
*What about the Hawza education system? We can start talking about its points of strength, if you would like to.
The Hawza education system unlike the university education system is based on data analysis not on accumulation of information or data. When a Hawza student studies a particular text, though old, the object of the Hawza is to acquaint the student's mind with criticisms and critical assessments made by predecessors. It is for the same reason that, unlike university textbooks which are easy and fluent, the Hawza textbooks are complex and difficult. In fact, the aim is to enable the student to decipher the writer's point and to be able to evaluate it in accordance with certain criterion and standards.
Contrary to the university the Hawzah education method is based on the emphasis that sciences are open to question and that the student should raise objections. I remember the time when I was in Sharif Industrial University one of my teachers used to say that if we are studying Newton physics it is because Newton physics is unquestionable and no one can raise any objections against it. Again when we study relative physics – which is a criticism of Newton physics – we study it on the ground that it is certain and that it is not objectionable. I am talking of the time when I was a student of Sharif Industrial University. There were few students, more facilities and many teachers. If our teachers were in the university every day for 12 hours, they would teach for two hours and allocate the remaining time for the students helping them. At present there are many universities, and the teachers do not have time to be with their students!
Contrary to the university, there is an old proverb which says "you should know". When a person enters the Hawza and reads the first book "Jame' al-Muqaddemat" which consists of smaller books on Arabic literature and logic, the first word addressing the student is that you should know and not read only. The teacher elaborates on why the author said that you should know and did not tell you to read. There and then the student's mind is activated in the sense that the student understands that he has entered the Hawza to know not to read. You have not come to read what others have produced. You have to know what is in accord with the reality. You must try to acquire wisdom and knowledge not information only which others have generated. This is the predominant attitude in the Hawza whereas in the university we are bound to pass a specific lesson with a specific teacher. If there are two classes conflicting with each other, he is compelled to choose one of them. The situation is not so in the religious seminaries because there are a great many teachers each having his own expertise, specific method and way of teaching.
Another feature of Hawza studies is that the aim of the student is to learn and when a student has such an aim he is motivated to share with others what he has learned. He engages in critical assessments and discussions with others. The established tradition of the Hawza enables the student to acquire the ability to criticize, examine and analyze what he learns. We do not see this tradition as something customary in the universities.
I should reiterate that when I talk of the education system I mean the education system of the universities of our country because the world's educational system is very different from that of our country. Generally speaking, what we have in our country is very defective and backward.
It should be noted that the world's education system is interested in knowing about the Hawza system. Some people come to me during my journeys to foreign countries asking me to explain to them the educational method of the Islamic Seminary (Hawza). The reason why they are interested is to see the effects of this method in nurturing the mind and improving creativeness that could somehow be duplicated and reproduced. I have a lot of personal experience in this regard.
*You explained the points of strength of the Hawza in pretty good details. Let us know the weak points also.
The defects existing in the Hawza have to do with the contents. Despite the advanced methods being used in the Hawza, it has not been updated content-wise. For example, in regards to the contracts and transactions, despite that the book "Makasib" is annually read by hundreds of students, up-to-date examples of contracts and transactions which are conducted currently in the financial domain are rarely propounded in primary, intermediate and advanced levels. Although there are some lessons dealing with current-day issues, the instances of up-to-date examples are few and far between.
Another flaw existing in the Hawza is that the Hawza education has made great progress in Fiqh (jurisprudence) and Usul (legal theories) but we have not seen much progress in other areas of Islamic sciences such as theology, tafsir (commentary of the Quran), philosophy, history etc. In reality, Hawza sciences have been limited. However, in recent years efforts have been made to do away with the problem but there is still a great need for more efforts.
*What is your opinion about the theory of unity between Hawza and University and your interpretation of this concept?
I have been abreast with this theory from the very outset when it was born. I have been and am one of the activists in this regard. The Hawza education structure has certain capacities and privileges as does the university. There should be a kind of constant interaction between these two institutions. Some of the Hawza points of strength such as the critic mind and the ability to process the data and to create a critic atmosphere should be transferred to the university. In the same way, there are some features with the university which can be transferred to the Hawza. Just as I said, the university looks at the objective realities of the society. Both of them have their own particular deficiencies and flaws.
However, these two educational structures cannot be merged with each other in the present circumstance. We cannot change the Hawza into university and the university into Hawza. Each has its own function and they should continue to carry on their educational task independently of each other. Of course, they should have logical interaction with each other. Unity of Hawza and university means that we should know them properly and then grant them a status that should on the whole be supplementary to each other and in line with divine objectives and the goals of the Islamic Republic of Iran. A comprehensive educational atmosphere is achievable when the university and Hawza stand together and collaborate with each other.
We are now planning to launch an Islamic humanities university and we have also designed an Islamic human sciences seminary. Each will do its work independently of the other but both of them will supplement each other. Both of them are necessary for the society and we will not be needless of either of them.
Unfortunately, during the pre-university period – i.e. from primary to high school education – we do not educate the student in such a way as to enable him to choose between the Hawza and university so that eventually he may, by steering his potentials towards either the Hawza or university, make best use of his talents. Our traditional education system which is based on colonial desires and aspirations has still been preserved.
When the Westerners created universities in the third world, they did not aim to transfer real knowledge to the third world. They actually wanted to plant saplings in the third world countries so that they may serve the colonial purposes of those countries. For this reason, they introduced an education system that would produce special human forces so that they might meet the needs of the colonial states. In the third world countries, those that were somehow suffering under colonialism, the talents are not trained on the basis of the real needs of the society. They are directed on the basis of some pseudo needs which eventually enable them to do scientific work in countries other than those of their own. The best talents of our country adopt medical or engineering career as we tend to become either doctors or engineers. Very few people are willing to go to humanities whereas in the advanced countries, humanities are considered as mother sciences. Likewise, very few talented people naturally choose to enter Hawza which teaches humanities. In fact, this is the general atmosphere of which we are speaking and there are numerous exceptions in the fields of human sciences in the universities as well as in the Hawza. However, I am talking of the general trend in our country in which the talents are not properly distributed.
The conclusion is that the unity between Hawza and the university have different political, social and cultural aspects and if we want to study its educational aspects, we must create a comprehensive educational structure in which the Hawza and university each has its own status and is seen to be at its own appropriate place. The relationship between these two institutions should be defined properly and the preliminary education for Hawza and university should be designed in a way such that suitable talents are guided in the right direction.
*Doctor, let me draw your attention to Islamic human sciences. What are the dos and don'ts in this regard? Would you tell us something about them? Do you really believe that today's university is secular? If your answer is in the positive, what do you think is the reason? What strategies should the country adopt to Islamize the sciences and universities?
What is there today in the universities is a legacy which we have received from the West. They include the sources as well as the educational method. Even the existing culture in the educational atmosphere is under the influence of the Western atmosphere. Actually, Western standards and values have been introduced to them which even do not exist in the West but they are versions designed to be for the third world only.
Before the Islamic revolution of Iran, every university had a mother university. Each and everything of that university used to be produced by the mother university. For example, Sharif Industrial University's mother university was MIT University. The educational books and human forces of the university i.e. the first and second generations of professors of Sharif University and even the University's building design were on the basis of that university's model. What was the purpose? The purpose was to move the most capable and talented individuals to the technical and engineering fields and then the best of them were supposed to be transferred to the US's industrial centers. Unfortunately, even today we see that the best of industrial, technical and medical forces of the country that are educated with national expenses are busy working in foreign institutes.
When it comes to humanities, the West does not want us to seek human sciences because the West believes that macro-management of the society is possible only through human sciences and they do not want to give this science to the people of the third world people. So we see that the human sciences are in the hand of the West in a very delicate way. Iran's best physics scholar is living in an overseas country but we do not have a prominent Iranian sociologist outside of Iran, one who might be a theorist in this field. We might have an economics expert in the executive area but do we have a scholar or a theorist or a chair holder in humanities?
On the other hand, the West's humanities are the legacy of the West's culture and history originating in the Middle Ages and afterwards. It is not something irrelevant to the Middle Ages and it has covered its natural course. That is to say, all the traits of Christian thoughts in the historical form and those of secularist thoughts – which are the natural results of historical Christianity – exist in Western humanities, whereas they are in no way compatible with the history and culture of Islam and Iran and with our ideological and intellectual concepts. I am not talking of some different elements. Basically, the Western sciences stem from different foundations, fundamentals and history.
Therefore, the discussion concerning reformation of human sciences is a completely basic discussion that has long been open. Before the revolution in which the pioneers of the Islamic sciences entered this realm and the discussions that were raised after the revolution such as the Cultural Revolution was an important point for the people in charge and which was neglected overtime.
The Supreme Leader of the Islamic Revolution appealed to the universities fifteen years ago to attach importance to humanities in the universities. The then minister of sciences was commissioned to reform humanities in the universities. The minister created a team of individuals one of whom was me to reconstruct humanities. Other efforts were also made during the past few years and they are still continuing. Theorization is a prelude to it. We have a lot of valuable experience and products which need to be organized and transferred to the educational centers. Of course, this is quite an extensive task.
*What is the reason behind creating a discipline like philosophy of knowledge in a technical and engineering university like Sharif Industrial University?
In the year 1993 or 1994, we created the philosophy of knowledge in Sharif Industrial University. One of the points that caused us to establish in a technical university the philosophy of science which seemed to be related only to the human sciences was to remind the students of engineering and basic sciences that the same very fields of engineering and basic sciences were rooted in philosophical thoughts let alone human sciences.
*Kindly give us a short analysis on the Islamization of human science.
Reconstructing the entire achievements of our human society on the basis of Islamic principles does not necessarily mean that the entire data are different from those of the West. However, even when it comes to the common data our view differs from theirs. When it comes to economy, I should say that many of the Islamic economic standards may resemble the capitalist system e.g. the economic freedom as a principle in Islamic economy but it is different from the capitalist economy which is based on a kind of neo-liberalism. The nature of neo-liberalist economy is different from that of Islamic economy. Their methods are also different.
I should add one more point that such issues are sometimes raised and discussed by some inexpert individuals as a result of which changes take place. However, I have discussed all this in "Written Theory" but the scientific society of the country has not welcomed it thus far after twenty years.
*Two more questions are left; first, for the time being we have many research institutes here and there around the Islamic seminary. What is your evaluation of research institutionalism in Qom?
I am positive about these centers. Some people might consider the tasks they are carrying out as repetitive or parallel but they are not so in reality as different institutes have different approaches. These centers and research activities can be supplementary to each other. Of course, that is only when we have the necessary capacity to make use of the entire existing capacities in the country irrespective of whether they are in the Hawza or the university. We will then see that all these achievement are acceptable and valuable.
*The last question to ask is, does IslamQuest.ir stem from your university career or from your Hawza background?
Let me tell you that I am not a university type of person nor am I a doctor in the sense that you are addressing me. I have been in the universities and I am in contact with university centers inside and outside of the country but I consider myself primarily as a seminarian. I am the first scholar in the history of internet and the Islamic world who started in 1993 to reply to religious questions and spurious arguments through the internet. Financial Times published its report in the year 2000. The IslamQuest website was designed to reply to religious questions and now it features up to 14 languages.
Here I promise you that the beta version of Islamic internet encyclopedia (Islampedia) will be launched in the near future. Hopefully, we can do extensive work on other languages as well.
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Source: Mehr News Agency